Mar 23, 2022·edited Mar 26, 2022Liked by Gen Dread
I want to thank Diana for her response to Renee’s response to “Emma” (and I’m sure she meant Erika). I was thinking “asshole” for this guy myself, and Diana ably expands on that. Renee’s response can be seen as aiming toward blaming the victim in this case. Erika would have done well, been justified, in saying to this man, “I feel abused when you talk to me this way, and I won’t have it,” and refusing to engage further — as she says, an almost untenable position thanks to her practically untenable situation. In some way, then, Renee’s response is (ironically) in this case based on a sense of “hope,” the emotion which clearly funds the 5 Internal Development Goals to which she points us. While as a privileged white male and homemaker I aspire to many of these goals, I also realize that the time and money it takes to deal with one’s past trauma, learn new skills and ways of being in the world, and integrate change is a relatively rare gift and a path even more rarely chosen. Almost astonishingly so.
I do appreciate this work and think it is very important. But we need to say to “Erika,” it’s not your fault, and it’s not your responsibility to save the world, or try to convert assholes.
I want to offer my solidarity to Emma. I think the feedback she got, while totally right, missed the heart of her emotional plea. Here’s something I know about this particular type of conversation, as a smart young woman interacting with an arrogant older man: he thinks it’s fun. You think you’re fighting, and he is playing. That means you’ll never win, you’re just going to find yourself in the ring over and over. Finding equanimity may seem impossible; it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have feelings, *specifically about being treated this way by an asshole*. Your self respect demands that you are pissed off by these interactions, regardless of their content! That this issue feels so urgent, and as you said it feels like he has *power*, makes you only more vulnerable to feeling like you have to carry the standard for *global surival* into every interaction. Which is too heavy, not your weight to carry and not something he has the right to demand of you just because he’s there and gets a rise out of you. As I’ve gotten older I’ve been learning to name these feelings for myself, be totally angry at this guy for being such a dickwad, and then know that my time is better spent elsewhere.
Stopping by here for a moment to validate Erika's feelings and express my empathy, and my anger and frustration on her part. This absolutely sucks. Please, please remember you don't owe anything to people who are that rude to you. It's not your responsibility to entertain or convince them or live up to their standards. Please take care of your wellbeing and serenity above all so that you can do your meaningful work. Just my two cents. All the best to you and thank you for your important work - to Erika and the others who wrote in, and to Dr. Wray.
There us something else that I thought of here- we often cannot know the true outcome of our conversations even if they feel “bad” or “not worth it” at the end of a conversation. It can take many conversations or exposures for a person to change opinions/behaviors. So we have to be a little detached from the final outcome which is really hard to do when the stakes feel so high. And the more intense the crisis the harder it is to feel that way.
I agree with comments that I felt that this was really a helpful conversation. I will say though that in terms of the response to Kaela, it’s important that she feels supported as well, particularly since if she was breaking down crying she’s clearly going through some emotional pain. She was looking for support from her mother. If future conversations don’t lead her to support, I hope she can find support elsewhere. Even if we have to sort of control or tailor our conversations in front of people who have ambiguity etc, we all still need people we can be open and honest with about our feelings, grief etc. so I hope there are other people who can take on that role for her if her mother cannot. Obviously other gen dread articles have discussed that, but I think it’s an important reminder. That if we are feeling we are “getting nowhere” that we need to check in with ourselves and make sure we feel supported in ourselves before, and occasionally during, as we go out into the world to have these difficult conversations. If we don’t, it’s going to be harder to keep an open or compassionate mind.
Mar 23, 2022·edited Mar 23, 2022Liked by Gen Dread
Very much appreciated this edition and all of Renée's insights. Kaela asked if there was an evidence that talking about climate change with friends and family actually does make a difference. I did a web search and found this, which looks quite encouraging, "Discussing global warming leads to greater acceptance of climate science": https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1906589116
The acceptance or rejection of climate science is not the important issue. The real issue is the acceptance of commercial Nuclear Energy as the only viable replacement for fossil fuels, and we need to replace fossil fuels since as we can see right now their economics are bad, are getting too expensive, the supply is very limited and what supply there is being heavily concentrated in small regions who thus wield extraordinary power over many nations. The happy coincidence is that replacing fossil with nuclear power is by far and away the best thing we can do to avert the worst climate change effects.
Conclusion: The important thing for everyone is to focus on is nuclear power not climate change.
I want to thank Diana for her response to Renee’s response to “Emma” (and I’m sure she meant Erika). I was thinking “asshole” for this guy myself, and Diana ably expands on that. Renee’s response can be seen as aiming toward blaming the victim in this case. Erika would have done well, been justified, in saying to this man, “I feel abused when you talk to me this way, and I won’t have it,” and refusing to engage further — as she says, an almost untenable position thanks to her practically untenable situation. In some way, then, Renee’s response is (ironically) in this case based on a sense of “hope,” the emotion which clearly funds the 5 Internal Development Goals to which she points us. While as a privileged white male and homemaker I aspire to many of these goals, I also realize that the time and money it takes to deal with one’s past trauma, learn new skills and ways of being in the world, and integrate change is a relatively rare gift and a path even more rarely chosen. Almost astonishingly so.
I do appreciate this work and think it is very important. But we need to say to “Erika,” it’s not your fault, and it’s not your responsibility to save the world, or try to convert assholes.
I want to offer my solidarity to Emma. I think the feedback she got, while totally right, missed the heart of her emotional plea. Here’s something I know about this particular type of conversation, as a smart young woman interacting with an arrogant older man: he thinks it’s fun. You think you’re fighting, and he is playing. That means you’ll never win, you’re just going to find yourself in the ring over and over. Finding equanimity may seem impossible; it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have feelings, *specifically about being treated this way by an asshole*. Your self respect demands that you are pissed off by these interactions, regardless of their content! That this issue feels so urgent, and as you said it feels like he has *power*, makes you only more vulnerable to feeling like you have to carry the standard for *global surival* into every interaction. Which is too heavy, not your weight to carry and not something he has the right to demand of you just because he’s there and gets a rise out of you. As I’ve gotten older I’ve been learning to name these feelings for myself, be totally angry at this guy for being such a dickwad, and then know that my time is better spent elsewhere.
Stopping by here for a moment to validate Erika's feelings and express my empathy, and my anger and frustration on her part. This absolutely sucks. Please, please remember you don't owe anything to people who are that rude to you. It's not your responsibility to entertain or convince them or live up to their standards. Please take care of your wellbeing and serenity above all so that you can do your meaningful work. Just my two cents. All the best to you and thank you for your important work - to Erika and the others who wrote in, and to Dr. Wray.
There us something else that I thought of here- we often cannot know the true outcome of our conversations even if they feel “bad” or “not worth it” at the end of a conversation. It can take many conversations or exposures for a person to change opinions/behaviors. So we have to be a little detached from the final outcome which is really hard to do when the stakes feel so high. And the more intense the crisis the harder it is to feel that way.
I agree with comments that I felt that this was really a helpful conversation. I will say though that in terms of the response to Kaela, it’s important that she feels supported as well, particularly since if she was breaking down crying she’s clearly going through some emotional pain. She was looking for support from her mother. If future conversations don’t lead her to support, I hope she can find support elsewhere. Even if we have to sort of control or tailor our conversations in front of people who have ambiguity etc, we all still need people we can be open and honest with about our feelings, grief etc. so I hope there are other people who can take on that role for her if her mother cannot. Obviously other gen dread articles have discussed that, but I think it’s an important reminder. That if we are feeling we are “getting nowhere” that we need to check in with ourselves and make sure we feel supported in ourselves before, and occasionally during, as we go out into the world to have these difficult conversations. If we don’t, it’s going to be harder to keep an open or compassionate mind.
This was a really helpful edition, thank you!
Thank you. I may need to re-read this once a month... so much wisdom here!
Excellent questions I can relate to, and Renee's responses will help so many of us having these difficult convos. Thank you for this!
Very much appreciated this edition and all of Renée's insights. Kaela asked if there was an evidence that talking about climate change with friends and family actually does make a difference. I did a web search and found this, which looks quite encouraging, "Discussing global warming leads to greater acceptance of climate science": https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1906589116
Hugely helpful to read this examples, all of which resonated in different ways. Renee's wisdom is deeply appreciated. Thank you.
Here's some good information on the science regarding climate change. https://normanjansen.substack.com/p/climate-catastrophe
The acceptance or rejection of climate science is not the important issue. The real issue is the acceptance of commercial Nuclear Energy as the only viable replacement for fossil fuels, and we need to replace fossil fuels since as we can see right now their economics are bad, are getting too expensive, the supply is very limited and what supply there is being heavily concentrated in small regions who thus wield extraordinary power over many nations. The happy coincidence is that replacing fossil with nuclear power is by far and away the best thing we can do to avert the worst climate change effects.
Conclusion: The important thing for everyone is to focus on is nuclear power not climate change.